User talk:Aleta Curry/Archive 5

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Revision as of 23:31, 1 February 2009 by imported>Aleta Curry (→‎Mixed breeds: need to think about this--so what else is new?)
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Hourglass drawing.svg Where Aleta lives it is approximately: 00:17

Aleta stops into the forums somewhere between 0630 and 0900, and works on the wiki between about 1200 and 1500, time and weather permitting.


The account of this former contributor was not re-activated after the server upgrade of March 2022.


——————————————— Aleta's Talk Page —————————————

I am a Specialist Editor for Dog Breeds in the Hobbies workgroup | 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, Current talk page

The account of this former contributor was not re-activated after the server upgrade of March 2022.


The account of this former contributor was not re-activated after the server upgrade of March 2022.


The Dog Place at CZ


Hi

Hi Aleta, just thought I'd stop by and make your day! Hope it's a good one! :-D. Matt Innis 03:00, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Me too! I had another reason, I just figured out that the hyperlink I had added to your Dog subgroup banner above was to the category page NOT the Dogs Subgroup homepage. I fixed that. I think that hyperlink might have predated a real home page for your subgroup, when I was still tinkering. See my talk page for a more complete explanation. By the way, that moving dog in your Subgroup header was just for a lark, if you want a more static version, maybe with a real dog, let me know. :) Chris Day 03:17, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
Moving dog?!!! I've got to see that!! Where iis it?? D. Matt Innis 03:23, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
I guess you found it :) Chris Day 03:27, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
Yep! I love it! Hehe. D. Matt Innis 03:51, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi right back

Glad to see you both--even though Chris Day was obviously chasing me around the wiki yesterday! Changes happening before I could draw breath! I will go to your page and attempt to understand everything, though my chances are probably as good as those of a sneeze in a hurricane.

I love the dog, moi! I think you're right, now I come to think of it, you were working with the cats first because there was no dog homepage.

Some day, when God's in Her heaven and all's right with the world, I would like a montage with photos/drawings of a whole bunch of different dog breeds, but for now, scampering poochie is just great, thanks! Aleta Curry 22:36, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Ill-defined fuzziness

Yes, very puzzling. However, a quick look in My Contributions showed that I had changed it at Terrier/Catalogs & not at the article itself. Which I have now done. Hope that's cleared up the mystery (wags tail). - Ro Thorpe 23:54, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh, great--mystery solved! Thanks, Ro! Aleta Curry 00:25, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Is this a cosmic hint that I need to make RIM-2 Terrier a blue link, or at least a definition?
Every once in a while I have to ask myself what on earth my friend Howard is talking about. It took me a little while to figure out that a(n) RIM-2 Terrier must be a car, plane or some variety of things that go. Aleta Curry 00:35, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Things that go boom. First operational U.S. Navy surface-to-air missile.
Oooh! Did the same bunch of geniuses who bought $200 hammers mean to call it a terror??
Nah, just things starting with T, rather like many British warship names, of the same class, all start with the same letter. Three related missiles: Terrier, Tartar, Talos.
Don't know about Australian government tenders, but some of those hammers would have been $20 or so from a tool store. Tool stores, however, aren't willing to fill out the 200 pages of procurement paperwork surrounding the one page of "this is the kind of hammer they want." U.S. government procurement officials often operate on the assumption that it is perfectly fine to spend immense amounts of administrative dollars to be sure that no one gets two cents more than the authorized profit margin.
On the other hand, I did see a $10,000 or so coffeemaker intended for use in a low-flying, all-weather maritime patrol aircraft, and I was actually surprised they got it that cheaply. Look at the coffemaker in a commercial airliner, and how it's built so hot coffee doesn't fly out in turbulence, its thermostat doesn't bother the navigation system, it operates on the odd power supplies in aircraft (there for good reason) etc.
I have told you, I believe, about the Australian Army attack helicopter training simulator? Howard C. Berkowitz 01:54, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
If you did, I don't remember. Mea culpa. Aleta Curry 02:18, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Now, if you really want a wagging tail, see AN/ALE-55. To a shipdriver, however, the tail is an antisubmarine warfare tool, about which we still giggle when a sonar engineer's young son referred to the Toad Array Sonar. Howard C. Berkowitz 00:20, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
The Army had a video simulator with quite good graphics. Some of the crews, however, decided it was fun to shoot at kangaroos.
Any humane considerations aside, this is really bad for a military crew. They waste ammunition, and fixate on a target. Apparently, the graphics people just had put in static pictures of kangaroos. The training officer decided to convince the crews not to get overconfident about their ability to hit things. Now, it got a little weird.
It would have made more sense just to remove the kangaroo pictures. No. He told the programmers to have them move. Well, the programmers figured as long as they moved, they really didn't have to move like a real kangaroo. Did they have any graphic software written for things that moved? Yep. Infantry. So, they put the infantry squad graphics into the simulator, and just changed the picture from men to kangaroos. They forgot, however, that this was pretty smart infantry software.
As it was described, the helicopter crews, who hadn't been told not to shoot at the kangaroos, went back to the simulator the next week. The infantry software, however, sensed an approaching helicopter. Now, I suspect the crews minds played a few tricks...because they insisted that the 'roo reached into its pouch....
Pulled out a Redeye antiaircraft missile....
And let fly. The Redeye wasn't that good a missile, but the crew got so excited they flew the helicopter straight into the ground. Didn't tell the next crew, who took such violent evasive action that they lost control of the copter. After about a week of this, the crews were indeed trained...never never shoot at a kangaroo. Howard C. Berkowitz 02:39, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Now, I'd accuse you of telling me a tale, but you really can't make this stuff up! Aleta Curry 02:46, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I saw your name

... next to the article First Lady of the United States and thought it was talking about you, Aleta Curry, First Lady of Citizendium! D. Matt Innis 03:53, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Aw, flattery'll do it every time, Matt! Aleta Curry 21:16, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

stars and pipes

See, you can do it :).

Also, re: archiving, this little frill helps you navigate through your archives with the greatest of ease. Chris Day 06:26, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Don't quite get it, Chris.
What, you type:
(date)
Archive box
and it automatically archives?
Aleta Curry 21:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
No, its so you have an archive box on all your archive pages too. Now you can toggle between the different archive pages easily, as well as back to your current talk page. It's useful if you need to try and find some old conversation, or such. Chris Day 21:54, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Okay, thanks! Aleta Curry 22:05, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Catalog vs Related Articles

I'm just mulling over where the border is between these two types of subpage. Your Terrier catalog is close to it. Is the border distinguished by how comprehensive the subpage is or by the addition of extra information? These are not rhetorical questions, I really don't know. Regardless, how would the related articles page look for the terrier article? There would be a fair amount of overlap. I should probably take this to the forum, but possibly here is a good place to start the conversation? Chris Day 07:44, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Sure--have the conversation here, why not?
I've never been clear on this. All I know is that a straight list, with definitions (susing the {{r| template) is Related Articles. That makes sense to me if it's parent and sub topics--sorta. When do htey become catalogs? Got me.
Aleta Curry 21:26, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Masterlist

This is what i was thinking of with respect to a masterlist, although the list does not have to be so long or in this format. Dog/Related Articles/Masterlist‎‎

Now this masterlist could be included in all related articles subpages for any dog breed by adding {{:Dog/Related Articles/Masterlist‎}} and we would see the following (see the "Other Related Articles" subsection in each case):

Note that if the lists are edited from any of those subpages it is the 'masterlist' subpage that is actually edited. Thus, the change is replicated to every related articles subpage with a single edit. In other words I would not have to go and make such changes on every single dob breed Related Articles subpage. Clearly this is not ideal but due to the ease of maintaining the list it is preferable. Chris Day 19:14, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Likewise, see the example of President of the United States of America/Related Articles/Masterlist transcluded on to every different Presidents Related Articles subpage. Again one edit changes every appearance. That saves you 42 distinct edits right there. Chris Day 22:28, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Or maybe the Dog list should be at Dog breed/Related Articles/Masterlist? Chris Day 06:15, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Chris, Is there a way of conditional transclusion, such that "Dachshund" does not appear on Dachshund/Related Articles‎? --Daniel Mietchen 11:06, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Yes, if every term uses the R template but I would need to modify it. In the case of the dog masterlist , however, I wonder if we would want to use the R template since the list is so long? Chris Day 13:33, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
I just made a change to the R template but I cannot implement it the way I had hoped, i.e. removing the term and the bullet. In its current form the R template adds the bullet automatically but removing it altogether is problematic if it is used in an indented hierarchy. Instead, i just put the link in plain text. See the related articles subpages for the various US presidents (e.g. Jimmy Carter/Related Articles). Any other thoughts on this? I had considered leaving out the article name but a bulleted blank line looks a little odd. Chris Day 16:50, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

The Dogs Masterlist

Okay, I need to do some thinking.

This is a great idea. (I think it began with a discussion about economics?) Sorry, Chris, I haven't read your quoted thread ye that could be it for all I know.

Okay, re: Masterlist of dog breeds. My first reaction is that this should not be the related page masterlist for every dog breed article, if that's what you were thinking.

The related pages master list should have articles like:

  • Dog breed
  • Dog breeding
  • dog reproduction
  • dog group
  • American Kennel Club
  • Australian National Kennel Club
  • Luxating patella
  • dog show
  • Animalier
  • Arthur Wardle
  • Earl family


That sort of thing.

The master list of dog breeds would be a subtopics list at dog? Wouldn't it? That's one for our what-are-related-pages conversation, I guess.

Aleta Curry 22:55, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

For your pleasure i started a new thread, different from the one I cited above, where this was first discussed. As to the specifics of this example, yes this long list of breeds should probably be at Dog breed/Related Articles/Masterlist to be logically placed. I stuck it in the dog cluster on an impulse.
As for where this list is placed, it can be transcluded anywhere it is needed. It could be in the "Subtopics" section of Dog or Dog breeding or the "Other related articles" subsection of Poodle or Dachshund or Rottweiler. The main point is it can be used in many different places but has only one home.
Your list above could be a different masterlist that could live as as a subsubpage of Dog but be used in the "Other related articles" subsection of Dog breed or Dog breeding. Chris Day 23:05, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Okay, I think 'transclusion' is what was hanging me up--that's something computer people made up to mean 'taking a bit of something and sticking it in somewhere else while leaving the original where it was', is it?
So, we can put Dog breed master list anywhere.
Can we also put more than one master list on the same page? I have a feeling the answer is 'yes'. So I can have Dog Breed Master List as a subtopic and also Terrier Family Master List as a subtopic, and Dog Reproduction Master list as a related topic, all on the Related Articles page? Presumably, I could transclude any or all of these to a catalogue page? Aleta Curry 23:45, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
We can put many different subpages onto a Related Articles subpage. I imagine they will be useful for the subtopic and other related articles subsections. I see less utility for the parent topics. You could transclude to any page such as a catalog but I don't think that would be as useful since they should be distinct. As you mention below. Chris Day 01:14, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Catlog vs RA subpage 2

Though that might not be so helpful is a catalogue is supposed to be annotated or something. (See "when is a catalog a related page") :) Aleta Curry 23:45, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

That sounds about right, basically more than a list of definitions. Probably we just don't have any really good examples of catalogs yet.Chris Day 01:14, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Heterosis

Thanks for lending a hand, Chris. Aleta Curry 23:45, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Mixed breeds

I see where you are coming from with respect to the catalog of mixed breeds. Sounds good to me. One trick that might be useful is that you can create a definition for each breed but it can be a standalone definition (no metadata required). Then the specific page can be a redirect to your mixed breed catlog. i see you already have the redirect in place. I just created the definition page too. Now you can use the {{R}} template to give the following:

  • Jackrat terrier [r]: A hybrid dog created by crossing a Jack Russell terrier with a rat terrier. [e]

You could also create the Jackrat terrier/Related Articles page, again without the need of metadata, if you wanted too. Why bother? It helps establish a rich connectivity between articles even those that exist in catalogs. This improves navigation to content that might otherwise be hidden. Chris Day 05:06, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Is there a special thing to denote 'no metadata required' when we don't want to have a cluster there, or do I just have to beat everyone else to the punch? Aleta Curry 05:17, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
There are two subpages that can exist without metadata, /Related Articles and /Definition. One subsubpage can exist without metadata, /Related Articles/Masterlist. All three of these pages can exist on there own but it is likely that they will complement each other and exist along with a redirect at the article page. If someone decides to write a full article instead of a redirect then the metadata would be added and these subpages would immediately be part of the new cluster. Does that answer your question? To clarify, there is nothing special you need to do, the subpages template will detect there is no metadata and add the appropriate category, for example, Category:Definition Only. Chris Day 05:26, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Edit conflict!! I think we just crossed posts--three times! I'm sure you have answered my question; I have to take a break and think about it. Be back later--or tomorrow, after a double shot of--after a rest. Aleta Curry 05:31, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
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