Talk:Frederick C. Roecker, Jr.

I am aware that submitted articles aren't supposed to be self-promoting or about less-than-prominent people. Since this is the second article I've generated--and I need the practice--I decided to go with something that I knew. This biography is from my father, and the photos from our family archives.

Sorry if this article is too self-promoting, but I'd rather play around with how to make articles on something I know no one else will be editing.  :-)

Thanks!

-Jacob Roecker

If you are looking just to "play with articles no one else will be editing" there is always your user Sandbox page, e.g. User:Jacob_F._Roecker/Sandbox. I have to agree with Larry on this one... is your dad notable enough for an encyclopedia entry? Eric M Gearhart

formatting

Hi Jacob, Great entry there, good use of family history. I would just say, instead of the "double header" format, it's best for consistency to just stick with the standard CZ entry style, which calls for the article name first and in boldface as the first word or phrase of the first sentence. The extra headers make it seem as though the article's subject is on a sort of textual pedestal. Russell Potter 09:09, 25 April 2007 (CDT)

Maintainability

Maintainability is one issue that needs discussion. There's no obvious issue of self-promotion, and we can debate whether you, Mr. Roecker, should be a topic informant. The question is whether your Dad just like most other Dads, so that we would have to let everybody write articles about their Dads, or does your Dad fall into a category of article subjects that we can expect to maintain?

I notice that General Roecker was a Deputy Commanding General and also a Silver Star recipient. Question to the Military Workgroup: how many U.S. military personnel have achieved such ranks and distinctions, and can we expect to have articles about all of them? If so, on those grounds I would maintain that the article is maintainable. If not, we should investigate whether General Roecker had some further special distinctions that would place him into a maintainable class; and if not, I'm afraid we should probably delete the article on grounds of maintainability. But I'd prefer that we not do so, if we can help it. --Larry Sanger 10:00, 25 April 2007 (CDT)

Sent a mail about this to CZ Military Workgroup editor James Whinnery. --Larry Sanger 10:05, 25 April 2007 (CDT)

I'm in the Army Active Duty right now and I can tell you that there are many deputy commanding generals and many Silver Star recipients through history. A more plausible list would include possibly "Congressional Medal of Honor" recipients, however that number is also in the thousands (3,460 according to this page. Jacob, I understand that this is your dad and his career is important, however as Larry said is this article notable in an encyclopedia, and is it maintainable? Eric M Gearhart

In today's Army, a division has two or three DCGs, and there are approximately 15 (offhand) active divisions. Certainly, in the active Army, I believe it's worth covering the DCGs, because they include the people that are going to be promoted to more senior ranks. I've written articles about a number of full generals who were DCGs at one time or another. Colin Powell's career almost ended with a bad review as DCG. There will be official biographies of all general officers from brigadier up, so I think it's a given the article is maintainable.

Recipients of awards are more difficult. Even with the Medal of Honor, many awards were given for a moment of supreme valor, such as throwing oneself on a grenade to save comrades, but the individual may not have had any other significant history. Other Medal of Honor recipients, however, were recognized for some very historically significant act. The Silver Star is more frequently awarded, and, again, there may or may not be historically significant circumstances, ranging from Lyndon Johnson essentially getting it for show, while SGT Leigh Ann Hester was the first female soldier to receive it for direct combat; all previous female recipients were nurses. Howard C. Berkowitz 23:17, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Dad vs. Grandpa

Wow! I'm very new to all of this. Just a couple of things to clarify. The gentleman in question is Grandpa--not dad. Dad wrote the original article which appeared online at http://www.coulthart.com/134/roecker.htm I needed the practice of creating and editing to fit the citizendium format. This article gave me that opportunity.

On the grounds of mainatainability and the significance of the individual, this biographical information is helpful--though the military campaign he is most noted for is probably not significant enough to be noted in the encyclopedia. The battle for a bridge over the Moselle was a difficult one. The 134th was used as a feint during the battle--unbeknownst to the unit commander (grandpa) at the time.

The battle was used in ROTC manuals in the 1970's as a case study on the military of a "feint."

Since the encyclopedia is so new, there are certainly more important things to talk about. So if I've got to wrap this up as practice then--it's been fun. I just feel bad having folks have to spend time commenting on what I write and fixing it. I'm still getting my feet wet here. I'll get it right sooner or later.

Thanks!

-Jacob

No it's cool man... everyone is new to this at first. And "spending time commenting" is just what we do here... it's part of the collaborative nature of the beast :) I hope to see you around on other articles... I'll help where I can. Silver Star, brigadier general and even United States Army all need articles... your grandpa can be included in the article on a "Military feint" if you like even. Eric M Gearhart

Outstanding issues

I found this article doing a 'random page' search, and three paragraphs into it, I still wasn't sure what distinguished the person whose biography I was reading.

I think the introduction needs something that tells us what General Roecker did and is remembered for. Aleta Curry 15:34, 25 November 2007 (CST)