CZ:Bot status/Fix-double-redirects/Community Input

This one appears to require deletion rights. I'm not sure we are ready for that :) D. Matt Innis 01:52, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

No, it does not. If you take a look at the test edit, you will see that James Jones (disambiguation)/Definition has not been touched. --Daniel Mietchen 02:35, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

The link that you provided concerning the script states:

Script which fixes double redirects, and deletes broken redirects.

Requires access to MediaWiki's maintenance pages or to a XML dump file. Delete function requires adminship.

I now realize that it refers to the "broken redirects" function that this script also performs, right? D. Matt Innis 03:09, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it's the same script, but differently parametrized, which entails different prerequisites, and so I filed them differently. Perhaps we should rename the template's "Botname" in "Task" or some such. --Daniel Mietchen 09:11, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for separating the two functions. I think we can run this one, but I have some reservations about the other one that I think we need to work through. I think the name was fine on this one, but the documentation could have been a little clearer to suggest that we were ony goign to use the "double" switch with it. Although, what's to keep someone from running it with the "broken" switch on. Can we lock the page that has the code when we make these things?

I assume that this bot, unlike the last one, will be run occasionally so it needs a permanent bot rather than just using the Housekeeping bot. It would be nice to have a place to "store" these. Have you got a plan for that? D. Matt Innis 12:48, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Is this worth the effort? Presently, there are eight double redirects. These can be easily fixed manually. And moves can fix redirects when applied. --Peter Schmitt 22:17, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I think it is worth the one-time effort to set up the automated fix, especially since we are still finding our way towards a CZ:Bot policy, in which these examples help. Even though it will have to be run on a regular basis, I do not see why Housekeeping Bot could not do it — it is clearly a housekeeping task, and it is less than 500 edits per month. In terms of improving documentation, the changes to the template that I alluded to in a recent comment include presenting the code, which would have clearly differentiated between python redirect.py double and python redirect.py broken and also between the test commands (which have a different summary and do not use the "-always" flag) and the real runs. The problem with this is that the code often contains special characters which interfere with the operation of a template, even within a <code></code> environment. --Daniel Mietchen 22:53, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for chiming in, Peter. I thought the same thing initially about whether it was worth it and finally decided something similar to Daniel's reasoning. We need to practice our bot policy - part of which is to listen to feedback such as yours and give a reasoned answer as well, so here goes: No matter what the cause, double redirects occur and no-one is aware that they did unless someone manually looks through the double redirects page. Currently, the number is few and could easily be managed manually, I think. I would assume that the first redirect just needs to be changed to point to the third redirect. Who does this? Obviously, broken redirects are more of a problem and probably occur more often so our next step is to decide if it is feasible to allow a bot to delete things without the risk of deleting the wron thing. I haven't gotten there, yet, so feel free to comment.

Daniel, I would think that the advantage of a permanent bot for fixing double redirects is that the idea is to make this function easy. How hard is it to change the script that the "Housekeeping bot" and is this time-consuming enough that it would be easier to just manually make the change?

D. Matt Innis 00:49, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Sure, this bot may be a good test case. A point to consider may be that the bot cannot decide whether the redirect "in the middle" should be deleted or not. --Peter Schmitt 01:59, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Good point. As a point of policy developement, I think these are the kinds of things that a Mangement Committee can consider part of their purview, though some might argue that this is a content decision that the EC should keep in the loop. One person creating bots just can't think of all the possible pros anc cons. I hate to answer a question with a question, but I think we have to ask, "will a human *know* when to delete it?" When *do* we know to delete that middle link? D. Matt Innis 02:14, 16 January 2010 (UTC)